tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post4088070381761337733..comments2024-03-26T04:43:26.948-07:00Comments on The Business/Judo of Life: Freestyle Judo - Questions and answers from Steve ScottDr. AnnMariahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13741371839260099343noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-59836176889697597272013-04-03T16:54:36.297-07:002013-04-03T16:54:36.297-07:00Vincente did a great job answering Anonymous' ...Vincente did a great job answering Anonymous' most recent post. Our goal in freestyle judo is to include more people in judo, provide more opportunities for them competitively and technically and use freestyle judo (and AAU Judo) as a tool for development. Freestyle judo is one of the many things people are doing to not only keep judo alive but also to do something to help it thrive (in spite of the IJF). If Anonymous (or anyone else) doesn't want to get involved, that's up to them. Those of us who do will be better off for the experience. www.WelcomeMatJudoClub.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-41108088536823289072013-04-01T13:20:29.462-07:002013-04-01T13:20:29.462-07:00What the state of judo needs to do is be more mark...What the state of judo needs to do is be more marketable in the states and not be bound by so much tradition. There needs to be a pro leauge of judo just like jiujitsu has(abu dhabi combat leauge where the sheikh is just throwin money at athletes). Seriously look at bjj they are BOOMING. Hows that's possible when its only been around in the states In the advent of the ufc. But some reason judo has been in the states since the 50s and its still fumbling. Come on whats going on here?! I respect what the man is doing for judo. Hes trying to make it more pure in a sense than what it is now. Well you know what 4 things can happen to save judo. a)have itself burn it to the ground. Seriously if the community doesnt speak against what IJF is doing then nothin is going to happen. If the US federation doesnt speak against it then judo doesnt need to exist. Might as well start over. B) there needs to be a union of key federations to splinter from the ijf and make an entirely new organization. A leauge where people have a CHOICE to where they want compete. You can either do the Ijf tourney or Global judo tourney. Basically you need to give people choices so then it will force other organizations to compete, evolve and market. Also the olympic commitee can choose which organization can has the most people and popularity so they can pick which judokas or rules to have not just IJF. c) only have ippon as the only way to win within a certain time frame. Where if theres a draw then both competitors get eliminated. Simple as that it will force aggression from both competitors. Lastly reinstate some band techniques where only black belts can do, keep all the grip breaks and allow grabbing the legs legal. the last thing a competitor needs is rembering what he or she can do that is legal. Thats my long rant hoped you enjoyed. :DAlex Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13302536909962342920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-25051155474814563792013-03-29T10:51:56.716-07:002013-03-29T10:51:56.716-07:00@Anonymous & all,
I do not believe Steve Scot...@Anonymous & all,<br /><br />I do not believe Steve Scott and Freestyle Judo has any intention of splitting the Judo community. Rather, he is addressing a pre-existing audience. The quote "Judo the way it ought to be" describes a very common sentiment when an "old timer" sees Freestyle Judo for the first time. It's just Judo the way we used to play. We liked the quote so much, we use it on our web-site. (Thanks Steve Scott & John Saylor!)<br /><br />In regards to a split in Judo, I believe this has been a long time coming. I believe the split is not so much between organizations, but between ideologies. There are those who will follow the instructor/organization without question because that is what we are taught in traditional martial arts. Then, there are those who recognize that the audience, at least here in the US, has changed. People WANT to grapple and fight on the ground. Give the students what they want, or they will go down the street and find a dojo that does. This has been happening consistently since UFC #1.<br /><br />I asked Steve Scott a while back about mat requirements for FSJ competition. The answer I received was either a Tatami or a Wrestling mat was fine. That made perfect sense. Why restrict a club from having a tournament if all they have access to is a circular wrestling mat--if wrestlers use them every day, then it is certainly safe enough for Judo.<br /><br />I think the moral of the story is to listen to what your customers/students want and not put artificial impediments in the way of good safe training and competition.<br /><br />Thanks to Steve Scott and Dr. AnnMaria De Mars for being voices of reason in the evolution of Judo.<br /><br />-Vincente D'Ingianni<br />http://www.judokai.netThe Judokaihttp://www.judokai.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-2876734284829622292013-03-26T15:18:57.636-07:002013-03-26T15:18:57.636-07:00Good points Mr Scott.
Some things still leave me...Good points Mr Scott. <br /><br />Some things still leave me confused. If you don't want to separate the judo commynity, why do you call it "judo the way it ought to be". If it's just judo with different contest rules, why not say "judo shiai the way it ought to be" or "judo rules the way they ought to be"? I understood that the idea was not to have a new judo but to keep practising judo like before and to have an opportunity to participate in a shiai with different rules. <br /><br />Also, why don't you use regular tatami in shiai so that you could organize contests with the same mats everyone else is using? That way a two day contest might have both IJF and freestyle rulesets used.<br /><br />In general, your website seems to be opposing the current judo contest format instead of offering something more to competitive judoka. You might win more friends if you gave the impression of giving something instead of being against something.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-80408019237077647372013-03-18T15:26:29.350-07:002013-03-18T15:26:29.350-07:00Many thanks to AnnMaria for posting my Q and A abo...Many thanks to AnnMaria for posting my Q and A about freestyle judo. Here are some further comments in response to the readers of the blog. Hope they help clarify any questions.<br /><br />What we are doing in freestyle judo is not creating something new or another "style" of judo. There is only one judo and that is the Kodokan Judo founded by Prof. Jigoro Kano. I tried to make it as clear as possible in my Q and A article that this is simply another rule set and not anything else. In exactly the same way that there are different rules for freestyle, folkstyle and greco-roman wrestling or different rules for Pop Warner football and football in the NFL, judo (as a sport and method of physical education)certainly has the capacity to withstand having more than only one set of rules as a sporting event.<br /><br />In regard to starting a child in judo with the intention of getting him or her into the Olympic Games, some points to consider.<br /><br />As to Jorge's point about choosing between freestyle judo and regular judo when he starts a child in the sport. Why is there a need to make a choice? Can't he do both? Judo is judo. In wrestling here in the USA, kids regulary compete under the folkstyle wrestling rules which are different than the Olympic rules. Kids also compete in freestyle and greco-roman rules in wrestling which are in the olympics. Wrestling in high school and college in the U.S. use the folkstyle rules, yet the USA consistently produces world-class and Olympic level wrestlers. Clearly, people in wrestling compete in different rule sets and it hasn't hurt the sport in any way.<br />As a judo coach, my goal is to teach good skill and sportsmanship; providing as many opportunities as possible for my students and athletes and doing what I can to raise their level of expectation so that, maybe, some day, they can fulfill their potential. So, to me, there is no choice to be made; judo is judo. By developing the rules of freestyle judo, we are offering another opportunity for athletes to participate in judo. <br /><br />If doing judo with the intention of competing in the Olympic Games is the major motivating force, then good for the person doing it. However, judo has more to offer than simply being a vehicle to make it to the Olympics. As I said before, judo has a lot mroe to offer than merely being a vehicle to compete in the Olympics. Again, my point is that by participating in freestyle judo, a person can also freely participate in judo using the IJF rules, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, or anything else he or she wishes. Why simply confine oneself to only doing judo under the limitations of the IJF?<br /><br />As for the anonymous poster's comments that the level of competition in freestyle judo tournaments left him disappointed; we welcome everyone to enter, including this person. We would love to have world-class judo athletes enter our freestyle judo tournaments. Disparaging the judoka competing in freestyle judo was a low blow and not germaine to the discussion of the rules of freestyle judo. However, in regard to this specific point; freestyle judo is useful in the ongoing development of any judo athlete who participates. As AnnMaira said; "However, they'd (judo students) like to compete and they'd like rules that are less restrictive and make a little more sense than the current IJF ones."<br />Rob Thornton's comments are totally accurate. Rules are modified all of the time and are done so to fit the needs of the people participating. Competing in a judo tournament using the freestyle rules, using the traditional rules (Ippon and Waza-ari only; no Yuko) or any set of rules is still judo. As Sylver said; "Judo is judo. A kid learning judo and competing in freestyle judo isn't doing a different sport."<br /><br />To paraphrase someone else from several years ago; "Jigoro Kano invented judo. He didn't invent the IJF." Limiting oneself to only do what the IJF mandates in their contest rules is to limit what judo has to offer. <br /><br />Steve Scotthttp://www.welcomematjudoclub.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-89273976773901662252013-03-15T04:48:00.160-07:002013-03-15T04:48:00.160-07:00I too like the rules of freestyle judo. I certainl...I too like the rules of freestyle judo. I certainly hope they might have an impact to IJF but I doubt it. <br /><br />However I must say I don't wish success for any alternative judo contest format because I'm afraid of losing one of the greatest strenghts of judo. Size. <br /><br />Nobody wants to compete with the same five opponents shiai after shiai. Being one single big judo actually means variety. As there's more fighters there's more styles you'll face in shiai. Whether its randori practise or regional shiai, having variety of challange is one of the most important motivational aspects that makes judo better and keeps it fresh.<br /><br />Another greatness of judo that we might lose by splitting to separate organisations is the skill level. Having players with olympic aspirations and hobbyists in the same club means that even the hoby judo must have some relevance. I watched some freestyle judo in youtube and while I wasn't expecting everyone to be "Kosei Inoue and Flavio Canto combined", I'm sorry to say the level of players left me disappointed.<br /><br />The current rules are less than perfect. The ones we had last year were good and if they had combined them with the new video referee system we would have been allright. And I'm sure these are not the last rules anyway. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-76195191184768492212013-03-14T00:15:29.611-07:002013-03-14T00:15:29.611-07:00Don't quite agree with Jorge on this one. Judo...Don't quite agree with Jorge on this one. Judo is Judo, and this is not a "different" judo. It's just Judo played with different rules. A kid learning Judo and competing in freestyle isn't doing a different sport. <br /><br />It does not prevent anyone from also competing under the IJF rule set either. Sure, one could argue that you have to get familiar with different rules and that this can upset your game, but the official IJF rules change all the time anyway, so everyone has to adapt his game to the new rules, and by the time you reach the level where the difference really matters, you are in the same boat as everyone else: <br /><br />No one magically qualifies for the OG out of the blue, so the rare few who have a slight chance of making it in the OG can concentrate on IJF rules 2-3 years in advance. And if they get lucky, the next rule change might work in their favor. That's not far fetched: The trend is now to allow more time in newaza and allow osaekomi to continue outside the bounds. No one playing under freestyle rules can afford to have weak newaza, but some IJF players have neglected that area for the last few years. It's going to be a lot easier for a freestyler to learn not to grab the legs than it is for an IJF player to get up to speed in newaza. Sylverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11370097000232020636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-28041059415766010762013-03-13T15:31:06.511-07:002013-03-13T15:31:06.511-07:00I think the attraction of freestyle judo has been ...I think the attraction of freestyle judo has been that many people (including me) teach students who have NO aspirations of competing in the Olympics. They are too old, have other interests, don't have the money or support to make it. However, they'd like to compete and they'd like rules that are less restrictive and make a little more sense than the current IJF ones. Most people aren't competing with "the rest of the world". They are competing with the 16 people about their age and weight in the surrounding area. Dr. AnnMariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13741371839260099343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-17415731466975363342013-03-11T17:44:39.995-07:002013-03-11T17:44:39.995-07:00From my understanding, freestyle judo is meant to ...From my understanding, freestyle judo is meant to provide an outlet for people who want to compete in tournaments that are more faithful to Kano's vision of judo than the current IJF model. Some may think the rule changes are minor, but I would respectfully disagree. The elimination of leg attacks (which are legal in freestyle judo, for instance) weakens the art as a whole. Judo is a martial art, first and foremost. Eliminating an entire category of attacks and defenses in the name of "more dynamic" judo is ridiculous. I'm sure Teddy Riner was thrilled to death when leg attacks were first taken out. After all, now he doesn't have to worry as much about his legs (which would be a major concern for someone 6'8).<br /><br />I think Freestyle Judo is a great idea. I love that those who are successful need a more complete "judo toolbox" to win. I hope they continue to grow and succeed.Al B Herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10693007977951992225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-10854088219524142412013-03-11T17:42:14.984-07:002013-03-11T17:42:14.984-07:00I do not feel like the rules are that important. I...I do not feel like the rules are that important. If the rules difference are not important. Then why create a different organization with events that are not sanctioned by IJF? <br />Why do people participate in competitions?<br />1. Get points for the next belt<br />2. Claim the title of the champion of the club/neighborhood/district/state/country/world<br />3. Test themselves against people with similar skill level.<br />I do not see how having another association of judo can improve any of this. But that is also why, although being tempted in staying with the "old rules" and go to freestyle judo competitions, I decided to move on and accept the "new rules" and be able to stay with the rest of the world and participate in IJF competitions.<br />This said, if any one wants to do it differently, they are in their right. <br />I thank you Rob for your comments. <br />Jorge Almeidahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578456951846190064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-74615237174681152062013-03-11T15:01:58.791-07:002013-03-11T15:01:58.791-07:00Jorge, do you feel that something prevents people ...Jorge, do you feel that something prevents people from working and practicing together now? Clubs can still come together and randori or intra-club shiai. Rules get modified on local levels all the time. It's not uncommon for local and regional level tournaments to have novice restrictions on armbars and srop-knee seoi. Sorry, but I think you grossly over-estimate the importance of "the rules."<br /><br />The politics of USJF-JA-JI. Goes back a long way and was never about the rules of competition - more about who controlled rank and a (little bit) anti-gaijin attitude from what I have read, long in the past.<br /><br />USA-TKJ is its own little critter, less i'll say on it, the better. I don't take it very seriously.<br /><br />robthornton72https://www.blogger.com/profile/16476387362210465361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-85610921110157395002013-03-11T14:37:24.472-07:002013-03-11T14:37:24.472-07:00Would it be accurate to say that you think that Fr...Would it be accurate to say that you think that Freestyle judo exists because:<br />1. There is no vehicle for rule change in the IFJ. <br />2. Places more value on self-defense<br /><br />Do you think that these 2 advantages offset the loss of all the athletes that could practice and compete together? <br /><br />(I think that this goes very well with the question of why there are 3 judo associations in the USA. Is usatkj freestyle judo?)Jorge Almeidahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578456951846190064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-76033770101798937702013-03-11T10:21:32.364-07:002013-03-11T10:21:32.364-07:00Jorge, a couple of rebuttals to your points.
1. ...Jorge, a couple of rebuttals to your points. <br /><br />1. Rethink your #1 point. Does anyone start their child in martial arts with the hope of being an Olympic champion? I don't recall this being a reason for TKD's success. How about BJJ? Competition success is not the reaosn the vast majority of parents start a child in martial arts. Marketing research backs this up. <br /><br />2. Freestyle Judo exists because there's no vehicle for a rule change in the IJF. The rule changes are popular in Europe and places where they make money off Judo. Here, with wrestling, BJJ and other grappling arts, not so much. I'd argue that Steve Scott (and myself) place more value on the self-defense capabilities (in the context of sport, of course) of Judo than its marketability. Grappling arts, outside of the UFC and smash-mouth action, have never gained much traction as ratings fodder. robthornton72https://www.blogger.com/profile/16476387362210465361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-12169882899548073352013-03-11T06:58:58.510-07:002013-03-11T06:58:58.510-07:00I think that the discussion points that I have abo...I think that the discussion points that I have about freestyle judo are:<br />1) If I am going to start my kids in a sport and I need to choose between standard judo that can take them to the olympic games, and freestyle judo that the best that they can be is "Freestyle judo American Champion". Why should I choose to start them in Freestyle judo?<br />2) Why create something new instead of changing what already exists?<br /><br />The underlying point is if everyone that has a problem with the rules of a sport start a branch of that sport for the players that are sad about those particular rules, then there is a fragmentation and a lower number of potential competitors in any of those branches. Sure, everyone can be World Champion of "Rules made up by me" Judo, but then what would be the prestige to be World Champion of a sport that only has 1 competitor. <br />I think that it makes more sense to advocate inside the IJF for the change of rules that we support than split with the world organization. If everyone that disagrees leaves, then the only people that are left are the ones that think that the actual rules are correct and there is no change. Scott in this way is not part of the solution. <br /><br />This is the conversation that I would like to see about freestyle judo. The reasons why it is different and all the minimal rule differences are not the problem for me. If IJF judo had the rules of freestyle judo, it would also be fine. Even the current rule changes are only minimally annoying because Ippon is still an Ippon and if you are better, you will continue to win. Splitting a sport on these minor issues is where I disagree.<br /><br />I am not telling Scott that he should stop what he is doing. For all means, everyone should be free to start and practice any kind of sport that they feel like. Judo is still judo and Scott is allowing people that want to practice it, to be able to do it and that can only be positive.<br /><br />Thank you for starting this discussion.Jorge Almeidahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578456951846190064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2192186541955038172.post-40316976525210536222013-03-11T00:53:26.812-07:002013-03-11T00:53:26.812-07:00I like the idea of this! may consider implementing...I like the idea of this! may consider implementing it more in my coaching. Have been thinking for a while of coming up with freestyle judo but it's already been invented!Sophie.Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00034935236108993023noreply@blogger.com